BNXN and Sarz on the making of their joint album, The Game Needs Us

I’ve never been to a Dutty December but the longtime Lagos producer Sarz assures me BNXN could be my tour guide. “You wanna have a good time, just tell BNXN you’re coming to Nigeria,” he says. “With me you’re just gonna stay at home.”

Sarz says he’s an introvert at heart, while BNXN is more “out there,” and I’m seeing that dynamic in action right now on a Zoom call with the duo the day after the release of their joint album The Game Needs Us. BNXN’s synth-driven, heart-on-his-sleeve sound makes him recognizable in the Afrobeats scene at first croon, and Sarz’s production résumé includes Drake’s “One Dance,” Beyoncé’s “Find Your Way Back,” Wizkid’s “African Bad Gyal,” and more. The two linked up for the first time back in 2023 on the Afro-heater “GWAGWALADA,” then again for “Pidgin & English” on BNXN’s debut studio album (another smash), and for the third time for Ruger’s Ilashe. Three for three.

After Sarz released his acclaimed debut album, Protect Sarz At All Costs, in 2025, the two decided it was time for a full-length project together. “The game fucking needs us, man,” Sarz says. “Come on, baby!” Ahead the two look back at their first-ever meeting, the meaning behind fan-favorite lead single “Back Outside,” and their chaotic dynamic in the studio.

The FADER: How did you and Sarz meet?

BNXN: I was at a friend's house—Kizz Daniel—and he just called me over like, "Yo, come vibe out, come chill." I get there and Sarz is in there.

Sarz enters call.

SARZ: Hey, hello. How you guys doing? Sorry, I’m at a shoot.

BNXN: I said, the first time [we met] was at Kizz Daniel’s place! Like I said, it was just vibes.

Sarz: Was that the first time we met? Shit. "Gwagwalada."

BNXN: That was like seven years ago. We made a song, "Gwagwalada," on that same day. That was the beginning of our friendship. We kept it going and made one more—"Pidgin & English" in 2023. It just helped solidify the fact that we work well together because those two records were really crazy. Then we made another song with Ruger called "Ilashe." This year—well, last year—was more like, Okay, we’ve tried it and seen what’s possible. Let’s make something tangible that stands the test of time.

SARZ: Yes, that is correct. The only thing he forgot to mention is that he is a crazy man. He sounds very sane here, but he is not. I can tell you that for a fact. [Laughs.]

BNXN: I ain’t gon’ cap. That’s true.

What’s so crazy about him?

SARZ: I love this man, but he is probably one of the worst people to work with because he has chronic ADHD.

So you have to be the one keeping him on top of stuff?

SARZ: You just never know what to expect with him. BNXN is someone you need to experience to understand. If I explain him to you and you understand, I didn't do a good job.

Your dynamic together is so funny. Who’s idea was it to do the promo skits to roll out the album?

SARZ: We both talked about it but I’ve been [making] content like this since my previous album. It’s my way of expressing my own crazy side. But it’s not just for fun it’s to show people what the artist-producer relationship is like.

So the skits are pretty accurate to your real-life dynamic?

SARZ: Very accurate. One of the episodes is about BNXN and he doesn’t even know.

BNXN: I know the one about me is the one where I’m telling him, “I don’t like the beat, I’m not in the feeling, I’m not in the vibe.” Sarz is trying to make me record, he plays a beat, and I’m like, “I’m exhausted of these vibes.” And he’s like, “What do you mean?" I’m like, “Boy, I don’t like it!” But he says, “Work on it, write to it, see.”

SARZ: Literally, that’s how we made "Rum & Soda." Now he listens to "Rum & Soda" and he cries. He’s like, “Oh my god, I love this song.” But when I told him to record it, he was like, "That’s not my vibe, I’m not in love right now." Artists are crazy. You need a lot of patience to work with them. But it always comes around and everything is wholesome and everything is great.

Sarz: Oh yeah…happy birthday BNXN.

BNXN: Aw. I’m about to be 30.

Happy birthday BNXN. What makes you trust Sarz in the studio?

BNXN: I think it’s his level of experience and his ears. They’re huge as hell. [Laughs.] He knows how to pick out the right sound, the right detail. We be fighting on that because sometimes I want to hear what I want to hear, and he wants to hear what I don't want to hear. It’s a tussle. But in this process, I’ve learned to let the master control it because sometimes there are things I’m not seeing.

Take "Back Outside," for instance. When we recorded that at the time, it was a lot slower. It was still sexy, but when he changed the beat and upgraded it — even though it was empty — I could see where he was going with it. I was like, I’m not liking it right now, but it called for deeper thinking and plotting to make sure it sounded right. It’s great to always just trust the process when you’re working with him.

SARZ: We were in the studio and made some bits of the song. I knew the song needed more, Benson thought the song was done. So eventually I was like let’s go to the studio again. Then he hummed his melody and I was like that’s so sick. And the rest was history.

BNXN, you tweeted that the song is “deeper than we know.” What’s the story behind it?

BNXN: It’s a song from a blind couple. Amadou & Mariam. I have had that melody in my head for three years and I felt like the day I used it, it could change everything. When Sarz got to LA and he’s like "I feel like we need more vocal action." I knew that melody was it. I could hear the melody in my sleep.

What do the lyrics mean?

BNXN: After I had written it, I started understanding. "Oni ma d’onka toume na" in Bambara means "It is God that gives and God that takes, but whatever happens, we keep moving forward." At the time, I was in a bad space mentally. I had lost a whole lot of money. Those chants were words of reassurance. Like, look man, you are abundant, let’s go back outside like you got this. I’m just happy we were able to make this one because it was really deep for me, man.

And they’re [Amadou and Mariam] legendary musicians. Amadou died in 2024, April 4. Which is why I wanted to drop the music in April. A tribute in some way. But I wanted to make it proper and make it right, that is why there was a delay. They’re from Mali and they make absolutely refreshing sounds. The project they worked on was made by a Nigerian producer [like Sarz], so everything is just connected.

SARZ: Deep, deep, deep.

Why did you go with the title The Game Needs Us?

SARZ: Because the game fucking needs us, man. Come on, baby!

BNXN: You see the sound on this project? In the last two or three years, I don't think I've heard anything like it. There was nothing like this on the airwaves or the platforms. People weren't talking about music like this. I don't want everybody that gets in tune with African music to feel like, Oh, this is just house music or Amapiano. I don’t want to sell that narrative. I want people to look at us like global players. Like, they can really play!

The sound of “Emotional High” is definitely unique.

BNXN: I’ll give that regard to Nasri [Atweh] of the group Magic! You know the American group?

SARZ: [Singing] Why you gotta be so rudeeee?

BNXN: We’re in the studio writing music, and I’m singing and we get to the part of the chorus and he’s like, “you need to take it up” and I didn’t think I had the capacity to do that. That’s why you gotta work with people who can push you and step out of your comfort zone. That’s why it sounds unique like that.

Sarz you’ve worked with so many artists. Why BNXN for a collab project?

SARZ: We’ve been talking about it for a while. BNXN is someone I love to work with, even though I said he’s one of the worst people. [Laughs]. I just knew we had to do something more than just one song. I think this linkup was the right time to do it. We were just waiting for the right time to do it.

Did you already know what you wanted it to sound like?

SARZ: We started from scratch. There were some ideas I sent to him that I wish he did or focused on more, but you know him—he’ll just be like, Ah, that's not my vibe, I’m not there right now. But I think moving forward, he'll be more open to doing stuff now. [Laughs.]

There were certain beats I thought he’d sound really refreshing on. But you know, sometimes you can take the horse to the stream but you can’t force it to drink.

It sounds like you’re often the one steering the vision before the artist even sees it. Do you think the general public understands how much of the "soul" of a project comes from the producer?

SARZ: People really downplay the value that producers bring. I think that without producers there’s no music. I think they bring as much value as the songwriter or the artist. But a lot of times people celebrate the artist and forget that. I should be celebrated as much.

What kinds of artists do you work best with in the studio?

SARZ: I like to be with people that don’t have egos. People who see themselves as human beings first and drop that persona at the door. We’re able to relate and talk about things we experience in common and what's inspiring us. That way we make the best music.

How have you both grown from the first song you made together until now?

BNXN: It’s all based on how I react to everything right now. When I’m making music, it has to make sense to me before it makes sense to anybody [else]. I have to listen to it way more times and be satisfied. Over time, the pressure with artists is because you are in the front of everything. If the music doesn't perform well, they’re going to call your name. They might not necessarily say anything to the producer. I have to every time remember why I’m actually even making the music. I don't see myself doing any other thing. I’m not under any pressure to make any mark. I promise you, I just love music a lot.

What about you Sarz?

SARZ: When I started making music, I was very hot-headed. I really wanted to impress everybody. I just thought I was the best thing to exist in music. But now I understand that I don’t know it all. I’m always willing to learn from anyone—even someone that just started yesterday. If I met BNXN earlier in my life, chances are we probably wouldn't get through this project because there are certain things I would want that he doesn't, and if it didn't go my way, it’s a problem. But that’s all in the past now.

BNXN: [Laughs]. My God! What would I do without Sarz? I wouldn't do shit without Sarz. But trust me, Sarz has been here for a very long time. It’s exciting to see that he’s been able to last the taste of time. He’s stayed fresh, stayed young, stayed sexy and all that. [Laughs]. And then he meets people that can take him to the next level — like us.