Marcus Cooper.
Troye Sivan sort of wishes he made another fun dance pop album like 2023’s Something To Give Each Other. The soft and sexy record with hits like “Rush” and “One Of Your Girls” became his biggest to date, launching to No. 1 on the Top Dance/Electronic Albums chart in the U.S. and parlaying itself into a co-headlining tour with his friend and collaborator Charli xcx during the juggernaut historic run of "Brat Summer."
Instead, what came out of him afterwards felt at odds with the rush of his career. The follow-up, She’s The Best, out October 9, is more contemplative, composed of soft rock and orchestral pop songs that largely function as “manifestations” for Sivan’s future partner.
“At a certain point, work going well definitely did make me lock down and isolate more,” he says over a morning video call in October. Sivan is calling from a cozy Brooklyn apartment, wearing a baby blue jacket that matches his eyes. His demeanor is calm and friendly, but the sentiment he expresses is a bit haunted. “I sometimes fantasize about how I can do my job while also not being in a different city every like two weeks. Especially in the beginning of a relationship: how do you get to know someone with that schedule?”
Its lead single and title track, “She’s The Best” — an ode to the women who have kept him grounded — is a bit of a fake out for the rest of the album that's largely melancholic and longing.
Recorded mostly at home in Los Angeles with his brother Tyde Levi and in New York with super-producer Jack Antonoff, She’s The Best is a genuinely vulnerable — to use a word that’s been bastardized by modern pop discourse — confession of longing by a young star who, to many Gen Z and millennial queer men, has represented the height of confidence and self-embodiment. “I've always just been honest,” Sivan adds. “Maybe that's why people have related to me over the years.”
Ahead, read our conversation with Sivan about growing up in front of the world, being a male pop star in a genre dominated by powerhouse women, and the inner turmoil that inspired She's The Best.
The FADER: After hearing the full album, I'm struck by the title and that it starts with “She's The Best,” because the bulk of the album is about this imagined love of your life. But it starts with an ode to your friendships with women. Why was it important to start there?
Troye Sivan: What I hope people hear throughout the rest of the album is how much tension there's been in my life over the last couple years, how I’m wrestling with a lot of contrast and ups and downs. [On the album,] I'm longing for this guy and I'm then going out and feeling super connected, but also really disconnected.
When the song “She's The Best” happened it just felt like such a relief. I was like, Oh this is actually the thing that is keeping me sane throughout the rest of this stuff that's going on. I just feel so much gratitude for [my friendships with women]. When I look back on this time and when I look back on this album in 10-15 years, that’s the thing that I want to remember more than anything else.
Did you have any conversations with your girlfriends after you wrote the song and they heard it?
Not really. The reason why [“She’s The Best” is] spoken is because it's such a grandiose, uncomfortably mushy idea to be like, “Oh I love women.” I wanted to keep this humble in every possible way, so that it doesn't feel patronizing and feels genuine. It's not like I'm sending it to [my friends and sister] being like, "I wrote you a song," but I did little things, like my sister is in the [“She’s The Best”] music video. There's also a picture of me and my best friend on a table. In some of the pins that I'm wearing, there’s photos of me and my friends.
It’s such a grandiose, uncomfortably mushy idea to be like, Oh I love women. I wanted to keep this humble in every possible way.
Marcus Cooper.
The album is about longing. I'm thinking about that in relation to your fame, because notoriety gives you access, but it also inhibits you because you have to protect your privacy. How how has fame shaped your relationship with longing?
I don't know because I don't have anything to compare it to. What I can say is, at a certain point, work going well definitely did make me lock down and isolate more. It’s a bit of a spiral because work becomes a crutch which then leaves you even less room for anything else in your life. I’m aware of that pattern. Sometimes I think that I would have to make some sort of drastic change to be able to honor the other side of my life and other parts of myself.
You're going to move to a farm and make perfume?
I don't know if it's about moving to a farm. Definitely going to keep making perfume. But no. I sometimes fantasize about how I can do my job while also not being in a different city every like two weeks. Especially in the beginning of a relationship: how do you get to know someone with that schedule?
I sometimes fantasize about how I can do my job while also not being in a different city every two weeks.
You've come into yourself as a gay person in front of the world. I remember when you came out on Youtube and then I remember Bloom. How are you thinking about this stage in your life as a public gay man?
It would have been obviously much, much more fun to write a dance pop album about falling in love or meeting someone on the dance floor. That was genuinely where I was at on the last one and it’s so nice to go out and play that music and promote that music. This one feels like doing the harder thing.
There are certainly moments of partying, literally with “Party” and “Canada Dry.” How did those fit in the making of this more contemplative record? Was that also from an imaginary space?
Sometimes. There's definitely self-awareness and some irony. “Party” is irreverent, with me saying it's the same thing over the course of four minutes. There's definitely a cheeky nod in there, but it also is really genuine.
That was what made it all so confusing. It contributed to this tension. How do I make sense of a song like “Troye Meets World?” I'm on tour, feeling myself and I feel so empowered in so many areas of my life. Why do I then want to come home and write a song like “Le Boy?” Both [feelings] were existing at the same time. That was hard for me to wrap my head around when I was even making the album, because I don't know how to process this as a human. I decided that the most true version of the album is one that explores both. Both [elements] are true, but neither are true if they stand alone.
You worked with Jack Antonoff on this album. He works with so many people. What does he bring that allows him to fit in so many different worlds?
He’s very talented and versatile. He has zero ego, which is insane considering how much amazing work he does. He really creates a space where anything is possible and pushes you to explore new parts of yourself and sonic directions. Anything truly is possible when you're in the room with him.
He can play everything. I'll go home for the night and then arrive the next morning. He's like, "All right, I put some woodwinds on ‘Troye Meets World.’” And it’s real woodwinds, like he's called people up and they've come over to the studio and played. It’s this very alive, spontaneous process that I responded well to. We worked together on my first album [Blue Neighborhood] and then we haven't worked since. I just adore him.
We have Lily Rose Depp on the album. How did that come together?
I wanted this recurring theme with the women in my life that have supported me. My sister is in the “She's The Best” and in the “Party” video. Sampling Madonna [on “Party”] was a very intentional choice. And then having Lily come in: she's one of my best friends and having her come in and speak to me, it’s so soothing to hear her voice on this manifestation song at the end of the album where I’m leaving on a note of hope. It was just very very sweet to me and I'm so glad that she said yes.
You're one of the only male pop stars I return to and whose music has been with me for years, opposed to the many, many pop girls in my life. Do you think that you face any particular challenges or limitations being a man in the pop space?
Honestly, not really. I like to focus on making what I want to make, which sounds like a corny, cop-out answer, but it's true. I don't hold myself back. I make the music video that I want to make. I do the choreo. I get up in drag. I literally do whatever I want and however people respond is how they respond. I honestly don't pay that much attention to it.
That reflects my real life as well. Growing up, I didn't feel like one of the boys. And in a lot of ways, I also didn't feel like one of the girls. I just felt like I was doing my own thing. I’m like, "Okay, I'm just going to do whatever feels right to me." That’s helpful in a world where people try to make the music industry like sports or something that is very competitive: looking over your shoulder at the next person or comparing numbers. I honestly feel like one of the blessings of my life was that feeling othered when I was young made me feel like I'm not even in the same race as everyone else. That [competition] doesn't exist to me. So, I'm like, "Okay, I'm just going to do me." That’s been a positive thing throughout my life and has followed me into my work life.
Marcus Cooper.
